I was lucky enough to pretty much fall into the job I love. That's not to say I've not eaten a few frogs while losing my way once or twice. And I still do eat more frogs than I should from time to time.
My wife took a lot longer to figure out what she wanted. She took courses, started several businesses, went travelling around Europe (with me luckily) and took some low paid jobs. In the end though at 37 she found her calling. She was close to giving up quite a few times but didn't. She kept searching.
Keep searching. Take courses, change your status quo, go travelling in a van (or backpack). See different places, people, do different jobs and extra activities. Learn a language, learn a new skill. Read (fiction and non-fiction). There are so many things you can do. Find your passion. Don't give up.
I work harder at the things I enjoy. More than that, I work more creatively, I link to other topic and build up new things.
When working on something I despise I'm a half decent employee.
So I'm better at doing the things I enjoy. And I enjoy them more because I enjoy that feeling of mastery.
And I can sell that to an employer. I am really good at my job because I chose it. I only applied for jobs doing this specific thing, and got one. I make sure I keep doing the thing I enjoy because I'm good at it -- it'd be a waste for the company to have me doing anything else.
If I'm going to be giving half of my waking hours and more than half of my energy most days, I want to love it.
I still swallow a few frogs, but I know exactly why I'm swallowing them.
Absolutely. Happy for anyone who found what they love, but for me working 7h/day in a job I like well enough but would sacrifice nothing for works too.
Getting FU money (which is essentially what the FIRE crowd aims for) is doable if you acquire in-demand skills. Yes, it would also mean eating frogs for years, but also many more years doing what you want (or nothing).
It's remarkable how many people acquire FU money... and then carry on eating frogs, and never get to do the fun thing (or nothing). It's as if for them "enough money" is an ever-receding horizon, or they have a huge psychological barrier to not just having enough money, but also having money still coming in.
I retired at 57. I don't have FU money, but I have _enough_ money and I no longer eat frogs. Most of my colleagues at work are completely baffled by this behavior. Their plan is to work until they are 65*, see how much money they have at that point, and then decide what they want to do with how rich they are. I did the opposite: I decided what I wanted to do, and stopped work when I could afford to do it. It helps that my needs are modest, but they are non-trivial (I have a wife whose work-of-passion breaks even and a son going through college). But the big difference is in actually realizing that there is such a thing as "enough".
*when Medicare kicks in, because they don't understand how to afford ACA, even though "afford" is right there in the name.
My brother did this a few months ago. I expect it will take him at least a year to get over the PTSD from his unbelievably high-pressure job. (This is a formal diagnosis--no, it's not veteran level, but it's real.) He traveled the world, is friends with people you've heard of, and is by far the most interesting and accomplished person in his high-end prep school class...and ate frogs without stopping for 20 years. Now he doesn't know what to do. I think he'll recover just fine...but this is not trivial, FIRE people, especially if you were sorta soulless to begin with.
Oh I agree. I was on the MBA reddit and one guy there (who was doing much better than me) said he was making high 6 figures but working 70-80 hours a week and didn't know how to get off the treadmill as his kids were somewhat young (low teens). I said if I had $2mm, I'd retire. He said he already had way more than that but he lived in a high-cost area in the PNW and didn't want to move because his extended family were all there. I said, look, even if you move 2 hours away west of Seattle, you'll be at most. . . .2 hours away from relatives. How often do you need to see your extended family? Every day? And I'm pretty certain the boonies of central WA aren't too costly to live in.
My dad has said, “I used to judge my success by how many unpleasant things I could force myself to do. Now I judge my success by how few things I have to force myself to do.” I think about that a lot.
I’m no longer eating many frogs, but I’m still feeling ambivalent about it.
Love the "eat frogs" analogy. The best career advice I ever received was from an Irish magazine editor, who I was working for in Dublin. At the time, I was 22-years old and a pup journalist. I was very worried that I was missing out on advancement back in the United States, that I had to get back, and as you say, Adam, "eat frogs". I expressed this to my editor. He said rather bluntly over what must have been our fifth pint of Guinness: "Neal, you can't really screw up your career until you're at least 30." What he later described over a ninth pint (it's like catching fish, the amount grows after each retelling) was that I'd be better off finding out exactly what I loved to do rather than worrying about hustling to get ahead in a job I didn't even really want. In other words, don't eat frogs because everyone else is eating frogs.
I want to bring in the research that shows that some people (looking at you, people with ADHD! although not only) are really terrible at estimating how many frogs will need to be swallowed to work on or complete a specific task. When we over-estimate that, we procrastinate on doing things that don't contain half as many frogs as we thought, leading to the reaction; 'huh, that wasn't so bad! Wish I'd done it sooner and not had to experience all that stress/guilt'. Most procrastination is driven by attempts to avoid negative emotion, so if we're over-estimating how negative an experience can be, there are real consequences.
We can learn to be better estimators, though, and to pay more attention to the satisfactions of getting things done, too. Much less procrastination!
We do have to eat some frogs, however, reach desired goals or to be allowed to do the things we love to do. Very few people like paperwork, but to keep teaching and therapizing, I have to do a certain amount of it. And a reasonable number of frogs were consumed while I reached the qualifications required to do so (although uni and grad school were also super fun and interesting much of the time).
When eating certain frogs actually aligns with OUR choices and goals, then cutting them into small pieces makes them much easier to eat.
But I totally agree with a previous poster who mentioned that when a low-frog way to earn a living is not available to us, it's a good solution to have a moderate-frog job, and then a LIFE outside of work. Certainly that's how most of humanity has managed, for most of history; seeing friends and family often, making music (not just listening to it), creating beauty around us (gardens, making utilitarian objects also beautiful ...), helping others and building a better society ....
I especially encourage stepping away from the 'find your passion' narrative. MANY people don't have a passion, especially when they're young and having to decide what to study/where to work. How about 'find something that you like somewhat better than other things, and build on that' and 'avoid fields that have way too many things that will taste like frogs for you'?
Yes, just as paralyzing can be the idea that "the thing I do has to be fun all the time". Much like being in love, it's hard to know what good work feels like before you find it.
Got a very late diagnosis (which transformed my understanding of my entire life, which is worthy of comment in itself). Part of the problem many have with ADD (no H for me) is that not only does it mess with your ability to estimate, it ADDS LOTS OF FROGS at every step. Nor are those frogs consistent over time, which means systems to address them will work for a while and then need to be reinvented with different requirements.
Holler if you need a system for anything. I can whip one up for you fast.
This makes a lot of sense. I noticed with myself that while I was stuck in my terrible relationship, I vegged out watching television basically all the time. When I finally admitted to myself what garbage it was and left, I naturally stopped watching so much TV and started doing more productive, fulfilling things with my free time. I had spent so much of my mental energy dealing with the thing that I thought was supposed to bring me joy that I needed the emotional equivalent of bedrest when I was not actively engaged in dealing with it. And I can certainly see why having a terrible job would do a similar thing.
The worst is when you have to apply for a job and are forced to tell your interviewer how much you relish the smooth salty taste of one frog after another going down your throat.
It would have been a less important post, but I can't deny that I'm very slightly disappointed this wasn't an analysis of frog legs consumption patterns.
Sep 8, 2022·edited Sep 8, 2022Liked by Adam Mastroianni
The worst is when you have to apply for a job and are forced to tell your interviewer how much you relish the smooth salty taste of one frog after another going down your throat. You will use words like "passionate" and "engagement" to describe the delicate flavor of all those frogs. Then you will have to repeat the exercise periodically so that your boss is content that he can command you to eat as many frogs as he wants to feed you at any time.
I'm one of those people who just stopped eating frogs at 20. What happened? I never got any important job. I don't complain, because I think I lead a happier, more frog-free life than most people: I live on the countryside with husband and five kids and spend most of my time doing manual subsistence work. But I also lost the opportunity to do something important. Through refusing the frogs, I lost my opportunity to do things that count among people who count.
Those of you who have secured a position can of course question if you really have to eat those frogs. But it is definitely possible to eat too few frogs too.
Another wonderful blog and your timing is perfect! My newly minted college graduate son will appreciate your advice on finding what to do with his life (or what not to do). I retired at 50 last year from a frog-eating career and love all the time I now have to enjoy music, friends, READING for fun, and whatever else I *want* to do. Burn out is a dangerous thing. Also, thank you for the wonderful photos you include in the post. They are priceless. Looking forward to your next article.
And yet, compare with non-capitalist societies (now or historically). The difference in improvement of living standards is massive. It would be nice if everyone just gets to do what they love and the human condition still was great for everyone, but we don’t live in the Star Trek universe yet.
Thank you for the post Adam, this is exactly the type of thing I needed to read at exactly this moment. Hope you have a fantastic week, because you made my week a lot better!
Nice post. Unfortunately it's pretty rare to be paid to do something you enjoy (assuming you even know what really makes you happy in life).
Having accumulated f*ck you money is a solution but unattainable for most.
Maybe find a decently paid 9-to-5 that has you eat the lowest amount of frogs and spend the rest of your day doing things you truly enjoy?
I was lucky enough to pretty much fall into the job I love. That's not to say I've not eaten a few frogs while losing my way once or twice. And I still do eat more frogs than I should from time to time.
My wife took a lot longer to figure out what she wanted. She took courses, started several businesses, went travelling around Europe (with me luckily) and took some low paid jobs. In the end though at 37 she found her calling. She was close to giving up quite a few times but didn't. She kept searching.
Keep searching. Take courses, change your status quo, go travelling in a van (or backpack). See different places, people, do different jobs and extra activities. Learn a language, learn a new skill. Read (fiction and non-fiction). There are so many things you can do. Find your passion. Don't give up.
Or,
I work harder at the things I enjoy. More than that, I work more creatively, I link to other topic and build up new things.
When working on something I despise I'm a half decent employee.
So I'm better at doing the things I enjoy. And I enjoy them more because I enjoy that feeling of mastery.
And I can sell that to an employer. I am really good at my job because I chose it. I only applied for jobs doing this specific thing, and got one. I make sure I keep doing the thing I enjoy because I'm good at it -- it'd be a waste for the company to have me doing anything else.
If I'm going to be giving half of my waking hours and more than half of my energy most days, I want to love it.
I still swallow a few frogs, but I know exactly why I'm swallowing them.
How about making it less rare, for example via Georgist land value tax and universal basic income?
Absolutely. Happy for anyone who found what they love, but for me working 7h/day in a job I like well enough but would sacrifice nothing for works too.
Getting FU money (which is essentially what the FIRE crowd aims for) is doable if you acquire in-demand skills. Yes, it would also mean eating frogs for years, but also many more years doing what you want (or nothing).
It's remarkable how many people acquire FU money... and then carry on eating frogs, and never get to do the fun thing (or nothing). It's as if for them "enough money" is an ever-receding horizon, or they have a huge psychological barrier to not just having enough money, but also having money still coming in.
I retired at 57. I don't have FU money, but I have _enough_ money and I no longer eat frogs. Most of my colleagues at work are completely baffled by this behavior. Their plan is to work until they are 65*, see how much money they have at that point, and then decide what they want to do with how rich they are. I did the opposite: I decided what I wanted to do, and stopped work when I could afford to do it. It helps that my needs are modest, but they are non-trivial (I have a wife whose work-of-passion breaks even and a son going through college). But the big difference is in actually realizing that there is such a thing as "enough".
*when Medicare kicks in, because they don't understand how to afford ACA, even though "afford" is right there in the name.
My brother did this a few months ago. I expect it will take him at least a year to get over the PTSD from his unbelievably high-pressure job. (This is a formal diagnosis--no, it's not veteran level, but it's real.) He traveled the world, is friends with people you've heard of, and is by far the most interesting and accomplished person in his high-end prep school class...and ate frogs without stopping for 20 years. Now he doesn't know what to do. I think he'll recover just fine...but this is not trivial, FIRE people, especially if you were sorta soulless to begin with.
Oh I agree. I was on the MBA reddit and one guy there (who was doing much better than me) said he was making high 6 figures but working 70-80 hours a week and didn't know how to get off the treadmill as his kids were somewhat young (low teens). I said if I had $2mm, I'd retire. He said he already had way more than that but he lived in a high-cost area in the PNW and didn't want to move because his extended family were all there. I said, look, even if you move 2 hours away west of Seattle, you'll be at most. . . .2 hours away from relatives. How often do you need to see your extended family? Every day? And I'm pretty certain the boonies of central WA aren't too costly to live in.
My dad has said, “I used to judge my success by how many unpleasant things I could force myself to do. Now I judge my success by how few things I have to force myself to do.” I think about that a lot.
I’m no longer eating many frogs, but I’m still feeling ambivalent about it.
Love the "eat frogs" analogy. The best career advice I ever received was from an Irish magazine editor, who I was working for in Dublin. At the time, I was 22-years old and a pup journalist. I was very worried that I was missing out on advancement back in the United States, that I had to get back, and as you say, Adam, "eat frogs". I expressed this to my editor. He said rather bluntly over what must have been our fifth pint of Guinness: "Neal, you can't really screw up your career until you're at least 30." What he later described over a ninth pint (it's like catching fish, the amount grows after each retelling) was that I'd be better off finding out exactly what I loved to do rather than worrying about hustling to get ahead in a job I didn't even really want. In other words, don't eat frogs because everyone else is eating frogs.
Ha! Having recently turned 31, I'm looking forward to finally ruining my career.
All downhill for you now. enjoy the ride!
I turned 41 this year and only just now stopped eating frogs, so I'd say you're quite ahead of the game (or I'm quite behind). Either way, cheers!
Neal.... what a wise Editor. So ... you went back to the US before 30 and ate frogs... or you did not? 🤔
I want to bring in the research that shows that some people (looking at you, people with ADHD! although not only) are really terrible at estimating how many frogs will need to be swallowed to work on or complete a specific task. When we over-estimate that, we procrastinate on doing things that don't contain half as many frogs as we thought, leading to the reaction; 'huh, that wasn't so bad! Wish I'd done it sooner and not had to experience all that stress/guilt'. Most procrastination is driven by attempts to avoid negative emotion, so if we're over-estimating how negative an experience can be, there are real consequences.
We can learn to be better estimators, though, and to pay more attention to the satisfactions of getting things done, too. Much less procrastination!
We do have to eat some frogs, however, reach desired goals or to be allowed to do the things we love to do. Very few people like paperwork, but to keep teaching and therapizing, I have to do a certain amount of it. And a reasonable number of frogs were consumed while I reached the qualifications required to do so (although uni and grad school were also super fun and interesting much of the time).
When eating certain frogs actually aligns with OUR choices and goals, then cutting them into small pieces makes them much easier to eat.
But I totally agree with a previous poster who mentioned that when a low-frog way to earn a living is not available to us, it's a good solution to have a moderate-frog job, and then a LIFE outside of work. Certainly that's how most of humanity has managed, for most of history; seeing friends and family often, making music (not just listening to it), creating beauty around us (gardens, making utilitarian objects also beautiful ...), helping others and building a better society ....
I especially encourage stepping away from the 'find your passion' narrative. MANY people don't have a passion, especially when they're young and having to decide what to study/where to work. How about 'find something that you like somewhat better than other things, and build on that' and 'avoid fields that have way too many things that will taste like frogs for you'?
Yes, just as paralyzing can be the idea that "the thing I do has to be fun all the time". Much like being in love, it's hard to know what good work feels like before you find it.
Got a very late diagnosis (which transformed my understanding of my entire life, which is worthy of comment in itself). Part of the problem many have with ADD (no H for me) is that not only does it mess with your ability to estimate, it ADDS LOTS OF FROGS at every step. Nor are those frogs consistent over time, which means systems to address them will work for a while and then need to be reinvented with different requirements.
Holler if you need a system for anything. I can whip one up for you fast.
This makes a lot of sense. I noticed with myself that while I was stuck in my terrible relationship, I vegged out watching television basically all the time. When I finally admitted to myself what garbage it was and left, I naturally stopped watching so much TV and started doing more productive, fulfilling things with my free time. I had spent so much of my mental energy dealing with the thing that I thought was supposed to bring me joy that I needed the emotional equivalent of bedrest when I was not actively engaged in dealing with it. And I can certainly see why having a terrible job would do a similar thing.
"emotional equivalent of bedrest" is a good way to put it. Glad you got out of that relationship!
The worst is when you have to apply for a job and are forced to tell your interviewer how much you relish the smooth salty taste of one frog after another going down your throat.
It would have been a less important post, but I can't deny that I'm very slightly disappointed this wasn't an analysis of frog legs consumption patterns.
stay tuned
The worst is when you have to apply for a job and are forced to tell your interviewer how much you relish the smooth salty taste of one frog after another going down your throat. You will use words like "passionate" and "engagement" to describe the delicate flavor of all those frogs. Then you will have to repeat the exercise periodically so that your boss is content that he can command you to eat as many frogs as he wants to feed you at any time.
I'm one of those people who just stopped eating frogs at 20. What happened? I never got any important job. I don't complain, because I think I lead a happier, more frog-free life than most people: I live on the countryside with husband and five kids and spend most of my time doing manual subsistence work. But I also lost the opportunity to do something important. Through refusing the frogs, I lost my opportunity to do things that count among people who count.
Those of you who have secured a position can of course question if you really have to eat those frogs. But it is definitely possible to eat too few frogs too.
Another wonderful blog and your timing is perfect! My newly minted college graduate son will appreciate your advice on finding what to do with his life (or what not to do). I retired at 50 last year from a frog-eating career and love all the time I now have to enjoy music, friends, READING for fun, and whatever else I *want* to do. Burn out is a dangerous thing. Also, thank you for the wonderful photos you include in the post. They are priceless. Looking forward to your next article.
Its sad that capitalism rewards those who eat frogs all day every day and suffer only to be made the richest person alive.
Then they are given the privilege to hire other frog eaters for them which still counts as their frog.
Worst thing anyone can do is to get paid to eat someone else frog and provide a 12 page report on how that felt.
And yet, compare with non-capitalist societies (now or historically). The difference in improvement of living standards is massive. It would be nice if everyone just gets to do what they love and the human condition still was great for everyone, but we don’t live in the Star Trek universe yet.
Thank you for the post Adam, this is exactly the type of thing I needed to read at exactly this moment. Hope you have a fantastic week, because you made my week a lot better!
I recently read I Didn't Do The Thing Today and the vibe is quite the same. Take care.
Great article. Who is the guy with the microphone in the black and white picture?
Thanks! It's a kid at a hog calling contest somewhere in north-central Ohio sometime in the 80s
this was beautiful and very thought provoking, thanks so much, I am tired of eating frogs, they don't taste good
This is excellent. Thank you. I need to read this. So many people need to read this.